Thursday, January 12, 2006

Cricket and rejection

You know, I am not used to not making the team. I was always one of the first guys picked. I was not picked to play this weekend, and it sucks. This weekend the fours are not playing, so we have only three teams and enough people to fill five teams, and I was judged not good enough.

Like I said I am not used to this, and its hard for me. The thing that is a bit tough is I work very very hard. I would say I work harder than just about anyone on the team except some of the young guys still hoping to make it to the big leagues. I go to the nets two to three times a week by myself, or with a friend. I am always one of the first people at practice, and usually stay to the end. I watch instructional tapes, I go to to get coaching lessons occasionally, and I sit around the house twirling a ball in my hand just about all the time. In the games I run at full sprint to the boundry to save a run, I dive, and jump and throw myself at the ball. I cheer and sledge in the field even when we are in a lull. Didn't I earn it? Shouldn't I be playing?

No, I shouldn't. I am not good enough. I have only been playing for a few months, some of these guys have been playing for over twenty years. I have to do more than work hard, I have to be a better cricketer. And I am not one to lose heart.

The thing that I recognize, is this, I am glad God doesn't judge us in this way. He accepts us even though we can't always control our line and length, and never control our flipper. And when we can't bat to save our lives.

When it comes to eternity, I am glad we aren't trying to make the team. The captain says, "I want this one on my team"

the rev


Anonymous said...

It's all very well and good to preach on what God thinks of us or how He accepts us.

But so what, Rev? We mortal humans don't have any control over what God thinks of us or how he judges us. Hasn't he already made up is mind?

And by the way, this means I don't see the point of prayer, either - only that it makes the person praying feel a little better.

Look, Rev, if I had to sit in church and listen to this sermon, I don't think I would be inclined to put much in the collection plate.

john jensen said...

I wouldn't want you to put any money in the plate. I am sorry you don't like my message. Would you like me to send you five cents to pay for the time I have stolen off your life with my bad message?

the rev

Anonymous said...

You couldn't afford my time, Rev.

I'm happy to donate it free, though.

Anonymous said...

Rev, ever thought about getting a real job. Did St. Paul rely exclusively on donations for his income?

Is it reasonable for a fit young and intelligent man such as yourself to place an economic burden on your parishioners or supporters? Aren't there enough people in real need of support - people who don't have the skills or health to support themselves?

Anonymous said...

Hey Rev,

I never made the team. It's not bad if you don't let it be bad... make it inspiration to become better, and you'll become better.


Anonymous said...

Johnnyboy, have you been reading one of those "positive thinking" books they used to like in the US?

The Rev may be getting to old for cricket. No amount of positive affirmations are going to reverse natural decline.

john jensen said...

Kieren I worked a job full time and pastored on the side for most of my life. I cannot get a "real job" as my visa status is as a religious worker. I have lived under the poverty line for fifteen years, with a family of four so that I would be free to do ministry to the outcasts, the homeless, the drug addicted. So you obviously don't know who you are talking about.

Again, you make personal attacks. Why do you come here if you just want to insult me? You do not want to have converstations, you only want to belittle me. Does that make you feel better about yourself?

Please start acting like a contributing member of this site. You don't have to agree with me, but stop with the petty insults and engage in real conversation. Or just stop coming here.

the rev

Anonymous said...

Rev, I grew up in a family in similar circumstances - a father who relied on contributions from others so he could operate as a religious worker.

I think overall my father wasted his time. There are more effective means to help those less fortunate - more effective than someone such as yourself giving up full time occupation to "help" those on the fringes.

So you have little support from me, Rev. I still think there is an element of "sponging" no matter what the good cause.

Staci B said...

Kieren, the only sponging I see is you sponging for attention by posting such ridiculous comments. (I realize I have fallen for your trap)I'm tempted to ask what it is that you do that is so meaningful and time-fulfilling. But at this point, I really don't care.

One of the things the rev (along with his lovely wife)are teaching their kids, by example, is how to serve and obey the one true God. From first hand experience, I can testify their kids have not been neglected in this process.

And, i'm not sure whose time sheet your looking at, but the Rev's job is a little more than full-time. It's all-time - do you think people's needs work on an 8 hour a day schedule?? The Rev & wife have God given talents specific to the work they do, and took the necessary time and effort to build skills specific to the job (like any good worker). Anyone who is willing to work is worth their wages. And to work this hard...they have my full support.

And as for the original post, you are so right rev. I'm so glad I made the team. I didn't even have to train first (but I'll be in training from here on out!)

Anonymous said...

Choose your battles man.
I am agnostic (or atheist depending on your definition) but the evils I see in organized religion hardly apply to my brother who is out working with people who want what he has to offer, while being a wonderful father and a passionate student.
He's not condemning anyone or seeking positions of political power.
Now don't get me wrong, I love a good theological debate, but that's not what we're getting here. You seem to have just picked this blog for pestering and you do so in an antogonistic manner that is really quite silly. Attacking him personally is especially embarassing. John works round the clock, always has. As an artist, athlete, and as a laborer. He's no lay about.
You though, apparently have lots of time for thoroughly unproductive exchanges on the internet. Ah ya see, now you've lowered me to the point of personal attacks. Oh well, I'm back to work.

john jensen said...

Thanks guys.

The fact is my job here is more about training others. And when I do that I also teach them to learn jobs and trades that allow them to work part time and do ministry without being a burnden.

Kieren, you don't know me, my work, or my faith enough to make these ridiculous assertions. I am not your father, I am a different person altogether. So please ask questions, join the discussion, be a contributor, but stop being a judgemental, elitist who tells others how they should live. That is the domain of the church and we get really pissed off when you amateurs try it.

the rev

Lionfish said...


I support you fully asking questions about theology or how a Church operates, I can feel your pain too in that you feel ‘ripped off’, but your comments to Rev are in appropriate in that he is doing what the Bible says to go to (be with) the marginalised in person. Jesus himself was supported by the resources of others. Please play nicely.


I have found that simply giving a warning and deleting un warranted comments works well to mange my own blog.

I do say that I support what you do – but can I sat that we normal everyday Christians also get pissed off when we are referred as ‘amateurs’ as if we know nothing about Church or how hard ministry is etc. Its bloody hard just being a Christian in the secular workplace, surrounded by people who can be aggressive to your faith, and make no mistake – the about the pressures of secular work and the need to deliver concrete results, in which the amateurs end up creating wealth and supporting the ‘professionals’.

I saw this type of ‘elitism’ when I was fulltime in YWAM – where people referred to themselves as the “SAS’, ‘God’s Professionals’ who live such hard and obedient lives (unlike those in Sunday Church), giving it all away etc. – but when the next ‘mission trip to Africa/Indonesia/Afghanistan came – they prayed for hard for God to provide….and then sent out letters to the lesser Christian friend and partners for support. From my experience – my time in YWAM compared to the pressures of corporate culture was a breeze.

Sometimes, I do think long-time ministers that spend a lot of time with Church people socially, at Church and then in their places of work may be a little out-of-touch with the ‘amateurs’ that are sent out as ‘sheep amongst wolves’ on a daily basis.

john jensen said...

Bro read what I wrote again, I think you missed it.

I was saying that we, all of us, Christians are the professionals at judging people, being elitists, and telling others how to live. And that as an athiest he should leave those things to us professionals.

The clergy laity distinction is something I deplore. A long time ago I explained how I got my nick name. The punk rock community I lived among started calling me the rev when I did weddings and funerals for them. It is an unofficial title that was given to me by non CHristian punk rockers. It then became my nick name while fighting, and has then stuck.

Sorry I missed your call look forward to talking to you.

the rev

john jensen said...

its called sarcasm, and I thought you aussies invented it :)

the rev

Lionfish said...

The clergy laity distinction is something I also deplore.

Sorry, I missed the sarcasm...but from your comment you can understand why we do get pissed off. :-)

Isn't blogging fun! (more scarcasm!)

Anonymous said...

Well, that generated some comment!

Just to slightly elaborate on some things. Yes I do have some more time on my hands at the moment (due to an ill wife staying with relatives and consequently kids who only stay on weekends - and I'm very grateful for a supportive family network, that, by the way, is not of Christian background).

I am aware of the battle nature of these conversations, and that I have contributed to (possibly caused?) this approach. I've also made personal remarks about the Rev. And when I've seen similarities with my background, I've also used that in the conversation too.

So it's probably not obvious that I don't bear any grudges against people here, including the Rev. It's more a case of getting some, hopefully challenging and interesting conversation going. Let me say that the challenge bit applies to me in large measure also.

So in questioning the Rev's effectiveness - not his skill, not his personal style, not his people skills, I sense that these are of a high order, anyway - but the effectiveness that this can have on helping the marginalised - drug addicted, homeless, etc - is this really the best way for our society to help these people? Yes people like the Rev have been helping the unfortunate for centuries. But poverty and social dysfunction is still with us.

Anonymous said...

True, poverty and disfunction are still with us, but religious programs have had more success than anyone at addressing and relieving these ills (and maybe more failures too, but that would come with ceaseless effort.)
As a non-religious person myself I admit this reluctantly.

I must support the fine work that has been done by many religious charities.

The majority of religious folks I know do not push their ideas on me, and do not seek to keep me quiet. But they do like to feed the homeless and feed the hungry and otherwise address the needs of the downtrodden, and often I join them. Never mind questioning their motives, I don't care if they do it because God says it's right and I do it because the social contract says it's right. I imagine it's mostly true that we're all really doing what we do because it feels right.

Lionfish said...


Sorry to hear about your wife - I hope evrything is OK.

And I do understand what you mean about family support - Blood is thicker than water. When you are down - it is your family that does help out (Christian or not). Though I have also seen some phenomenal support from small churches working to help out in peoples lives when there is no support network.

Christian Minisry and Programmes have mad a huge impact on the world (slavery, schools, hospitals, alchohics anonomous, welfare, orphanages).

Christianity is so fallible / hypocritical - but often it is the salt that preserves - and light that shows the way for a better / more equitable society.

Send me an email if you want to chat offline clandotmackenzieatbigponddotcom

john jensen said...

Yeah AA has been around for years, and there are still alocoholics, they should stop with that crap!

The poor and marginalized need more than money and programs, they need families to actually live with them. Be mentors, and community, and support. I don't seem many people actually volunteering to do this. I on the other hand have. The only reason I get payed now is because that is my visa requirement. I would rather work and do this on the side.

But how many unmarried pregnant teens have you taken into your house? Or homeless punk rockers? Or teens kicked out of their homes? How many Christmas mornings have you spent at the mental hospital with suicidal gang bangers? How many homosexual drug addicts have you held while they cried and suffered through dt's?

Some people get payed lots of money to do this stuff. I get a very small wage, that people that have seen my family in action, donate to. I would make a lot more money, doing a lot easier work, in the secular market.

But ofcourse you don't know any of this.

And if you are worried about my kids, both of them want to do the same thing. One wants to work in the slums of the philipines and the other wants to work with poverty and disease stricken Africans. They actually have found fulfilment in this lifestyle.

the rev

Lionfish said...

Rev, what you do, the world does need more of.

No argument there mate.

Anonymous said...

You know what Rev, you really don't need to justify what you do. You do what you feel that God has asked you to and it's flippen awesome.

I really don't see any point in having arguments with people who don't want to hear about it.

I know it's irrelevant to Keiran, but for me the evidence of God is obvious both on an emotional and an intellectual level - the only logical conclusion, but for someone who has obviously been let down by God's people (either by their own perceptions and falsely judging a situation), or genuinely hurt, and is now bitter and taking it out on God - and once again God's people - these discussions aren't gonna go anywhere.

Unless Keiran the reason that you are here is because deep down you hate to admit it but know that there is something to this God stuff, and like infatuated kids at school, you are hitting out at the thing you really want to be a part of.

Why go to such lengths to research a science like Neurotheology, that obviously only exists to try and work out what all this God stuff is they are experiencing.

If God were not real, you realise this is the equivalent of a whole branch of science dedicated to disproving Santa - of course that doesn't exist because Santa doesn't!

God loves you Keiran, with an ever lasting love. (Even when you beat up on his people!!) I know, nuts ain't it!

Anonymous said...

Sorry Kieren - kept spelling your name wrong!

Anonymous said...

man, someone always has to piss on the campfire...


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Wow.... All that because The Rev cant consistently land a flipper....Blogging makes legspin look easy! Well bowled dude!