tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post115107475905745210..comments2023-09-09T08:53:09.616-07:00Comments on the rev: Peter vs Pauljohn jensenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01152784582419753697noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1152564182868188592006-07-10T13:43:00.000-07:002006-07-10T13:43:00.000-07:00Wow,haven't heard that before. I think you are co...Wow,<BR/><BR/>haven't heard that before. I think you are completely wrong, I wouldn't mind having a discussion with you about it all however.<BR/><BR/>Bec,<BR/><BR/>The thing that makes this hard is that knowing that people crave stability, doesn't make it for certain that we are to provide them with that, infact we cannot. Only God can do that, and usually God does not beyond extending Her unfailing love.<BR/><BR/>I try to connect and give of myself as much as I am able, to truly be with people. This makes leaving all the more difficult. It actually does hurt me as well. Deeply.<BR/><BR/>But I look and see that this is my call, the relationships I make do not end, they just change. And those that have received our ministry in the past, thought they wish we were still with them, they also in some way are glad we are offering it to others now.<BR/><BR/>It is hard in this culture where so many people struggle with abandonment. And I do feel guilt at times, but there is a sense of calling, and there is a scriptural understanding, and there is a church tradition, that supports what I have said. <BR/><BR/>In this world I am to be myself, redeemed by Christ, and not try to be another.<BR/><BR/>the revjohn jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152784582419753697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1152555220795273672006-07-10T11:13:00.000-07:002006-07-10T11:13:00.000-07:00I used to feel amazed by Paul too...until I read o...I used to feel amazed by Paul too...until I read one of his verses that taught opposite Christ.<BR/><BR/>Now,I seriously believe Paul was a false apostle as:<BR/><BR/>1. He wasn’t ordained an apostle by Christ (Mat 10)<BR/><BR/>2. He didn’t qualify to be an apostle (Acts 1:16-26)<BR/><BR/>3. Paul’s doctrine is proven false:<BR/><BR/>After Christ died and rose he appeared to his apostles. The gospels record him as appearing to the “eleven” (remember, Judas had died), but Paul’s doctrine is in clear error as he tells us that Christ appeared to the “twelve”:<BR/><BR/>Paul said twelve:<BR/><BR/>1 Corinthians 15:4-6<BR/><BR/>4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve<BR/><BR/>Mark said eleven:<BR/><BR/>Mark 16:14: Afterward he (Christ) appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat<BR/><BR/>Matthew said eleven:<BR/><BR/>Matt 28:16-18:<BR/><BR/>Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.<BR/><BR/>Luke’s mentions the “eleven”: <BR/><BR/>2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, 7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. 8And they remembered his words, 9And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.<BR/><BR/>Acts mentions eleven:<BR/><BR/>Acts 1:26:<BR/><BR/>26And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.<BR/><BR/>Paul is a liar, and a proven false witness. Christ, in Revelation 2:2 commends the church of Epheus for figuring out false aposles. He said, “…thou hast tried them which say they are apsostles, and are not, and hast found them liars. Remember, Paul preached at Epheus.<BR/><BR/>Fact 4:<BR/>The apostles did not believe Paul was a disciple:<BR/><BR/>Acts 9:26<BR/>26And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.<BR/><BR/>After Barnabas told the apostles that Paul had “seen the Lord” and that he preached boldy in the name of Jesus, the Apostles didn’t tell him to join them, but they sent him home to Tarsus. Remember, Jesus told us (Mat 13:57) that a prophet is not without honour except in his own country and in his own house . The apostles sent Paul to a place that no one would believe him.<BR/><BR/>I have much, much more on my website going into faith works and law too. If you want to see more, just go to my site: www.returntorighteousness.blogspot.comDigital Diet 365https://www.blogger.com/profile/10207415272577702960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1152493564200438842006-07-09T18:06:00.000-07:002006-07-09T18:06:00.000-07:00Here's another way of putting it: given we live in...Here's another way of putting it: given we live in a really mobile society, where many people crave a sense of community and commitment but struggle to find it, how do balance that with the sense that you are being called on? What are the questions you ask? How do you make a decision? How do you know you're not just moving because deep down you need the sense of newness, excitement etc? (As above, these are the issues I struggle with myself)Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02456121582722875862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151987737826326672006-07-03T21:35:00.000-07:002006-07-03T21:35:00.000-07:00well I don't know how to answer your question othe...well I don't know how to answer your question other than the way I did, I can no more be a Peter than I can be an introvert. I actually think most people today really long for a more stable life, otherwise I would not get so much grief for leaving when I do. <BR/><BR/>the revjohn jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152784582419753697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151979976552353882006-07-03T19:26:00.000-07:002006-07-03T19:26:00.000-07:00I think anonymous and I were asking the same thing...I think anonymous and I were asking the same thing. You said it (I assume you mean the modern world?) doesn't make much difference, but then say that "it is those I truly live in community with that I have those profound life changing moments with".<BR/><BR/>This is what I mean - for those of us who are kinda like Paul, how do we balance that with the fact that we live in world that is much more fluid, and tends to have lots of Pauls and fewer Peters, and maybe needs the Peters more?<BR/><BR/>I'm thinking aloud here, and I'm someone who gets itchy feet, so I'm asking as someone who struggles with this...Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02456121582722875862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151943292918962332006-07-03T09:14:00.000-07:002006-07-03T09:14:00.000-07:00Well rebecca, I don't see that it makes all that m...Well rebecca, I don't see that it makes all that much diference. I keep in touch with others from afar, but it is those I truly live in community with that I have those profound life changing moments with. As a Paul in this society, it requires the same of me, I must get up and go.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous, the instant results world that I live in does causes me to doubt frequently, but I try to stand by my principles. It would be too easy to call my first church plant a failure. The church no longer exists. But infact it does exist. They do not meet together regularly, nor do they live in community together anymore. But the faith they grew into is still alive, and being shared and spread all over the world. So it would seem it is a success afterall, just not a measurable one.<BR/><BR/>Seeing some of those young people on this trip, and them sharing with us how they had been impacted by our little community was one of the most encouraging things I have ever experienced. I hope I now look more for the long term fruit, rather than the quick pay off.<BR/><BR/>As to my painting, it has been nice to paint on vacation. I was inspired by my mentor Fr Bill Moore to be more disciplined in my painting, I feel like it is part of my ministry, and part of a healthy holistic life for me.<BR/><BR/>I will post some pictures perhaps later.<BR/><BR/>the revjohn jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01152784582419753697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151903799584201292006-07-02T22:16:00.000-07:002006-07-02T22:16:00.000-07:00*note to self*do not read KLJ's posts while at wor...*note to self*<BR/><BR/>do not read KLJ's posts while at work...everyone will think you're crazy...Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02456121582722875862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151885755198682832006-07-02T17:15:00.000-07:002006-07-02T17:15:00.000-07:00I got to see the Reverend a couple of times this w...I got to see the Reverend a couple of times this week. He's working on artwork even as he bounces around. I barely manage to do that and my medium just involves finding a computer to sit at. There he is at our mom's with eight wood boxes and a bunch of paint. <BR/><BR/>What a great family. His girls are awesome as ever as they become full fledged humans (he raised them up from monkeys) and the friend they brought with them from Oz is one of the nicest foreigners I ever had the pleasure to pick on. Of course my sister in law Raquel, well she's as hot as ever. Probably too hot for John, but he does okay. <BR/>Is it wrong to acknowledge that your brother's wife is hot? If so, I don't wanna be right.KLJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07518406972256513476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151580966919393492006-06-29T04:36:00.000-07:002006-06-29T04:36:00.000-07:00Isn't that: eats roots and leaves?Rev was hoping, ...Isn't that: eats roots and leaves?<BR/><BR/>Rev was hoping, kinda like the woman you left your last one for that we (Australia) would be the last!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151554129842103712006-06-28T21:08:00.000-07:002006-06-28T21:08:00.000-07:00Paul sounds like the Australian wombat: eats, root...Paul sounds like the Australian wombat: eats, roots and leaves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151468266306802222006-06-27T21:17:00.000-07:002006-06-27T21:17:00.000-07:00*sob*where's the rev?!?!?!*sob*<BR/><BR/>where's the rev?!?!?!Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02456121582722875862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151242339884054312006-06-25T06:32:00.000-07:002006-06-25T06:32:00.000-07:00Was inspired and loved the post.I appreciate the a...Was inspired and loved the post.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate the amazingly insightful way you view the world and are then able to articulate your thoughts.<BR/><BR/>The only question I have ( pardon my lesser ability to articulate my thoughts) is Where do these characters sit in this world of the instant results and the hear and know and speak into the context of a world that says " if it isn't working get out" this disposable world that seems to value the new and exciting but easily gets bored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151132613263809282006-06-24T00:03:00.000-07:002006-06-24T00:03:00.000-07:00I like this post Rev, great thinking.But what abou...I like this post Rev, great thinking.<BR/><BR/>But what about this: Peter and Paul lived in a society where there was actually a fair bit of stability and a stronger sense of community, reciprocity etc. Sure, people moved about, especially traders - but they didn't generally have the access to transportation we do, nor did they live in an individualised, atomised society where people related to each other via phone and internet more than they did face to face.<BR/><BR/>So my question is: what does this mean for people like Paul today?<BR/><BR/>(And I ask this as someone who's got at least a little bit of 'Paul' in her)Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02456121582722875862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9706995.post-1151114950260096472006-06-23T19:09:00.000-07:002006-06-23T19:09:00.000-07:00good post rev!right with you there mategood post rev!<BR/><BR/>right with you there matebackyardmissionaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04293586804277047499noreply@blogger.com